ok..this is going to be a weird one…

Posted: April 13, 2013 at 6:32 pm

but bear with me for a minute.

ever since the vegan ambush..i have been thinking..i don’t mean surface surfing..i mean REALLY deep, dark thinking.
I came up with more questions then I did answers and I am still trying to figure things thru.
the 2 questions that haunt me are…
1. am I a natural born killer?
2. and do I value some biological life forms more than others?

the answer to both of those questions is…yes.

bet you thought I would lie and say the answers were no!

but think about it..i will with great reluctance and regret end the life of someone like fletch. I will feel pretty rotten inside doing rodent population control, but I will still out of necessity do it.

but there are living biological creatures that I have not a single second thought on killing…mosquitoes, fleas, flies, lice, and absolutely any kind of internal parasite…if I could exterminate them all…trust me, in a heartbeat I would.

now you might say well ok…but those are not sentient beings. who says they are not? they are self aware enough to feed when hungry, they are self aware enough to know how and when to reproduce, they are self aware enough to try to survive and to seek opportunities to improve and exploit their living conditions..that is far more than a human in a clinical vegetive state can do.

and I am sorry..i just can’t see anyone, vegan or not carefully picking lice off of their 5 yr olds head and setting them loose in the forest. I wonder if the very devote Buddhist monks once hit this conflict of faith and that is why they always shave their heads to this day..to prevent a further conflict in valuing all forms of life.

sorry, I am digressing into the ridiculous..I have no idea what so ever why Buddhist monks shave their heads…I was just thinking that maybe they had a really practical reason.

anyway…does this mean that I do not want to one day grow into a full fledged vegetarian or vegan instead of my current situation of trying to make careful and compassionate choices? no it does not. but there are other things that I think on..like if suddenly at this minute every single human being on this planet discovered the right path and ceased to exploit animals?

what would happen? would 40 million chickens, cows and pigs suddenly have their gates tossed open and allowed to be free? what would happen to the millions and millions dogs and cats who depend on those animals for us to feed them?

could we as humans live with free roaming wild cows, dogs and pigs? well the uncastrated ones could be pretty darn scary! could nature even support the sudden release of domesticated animals to compete for food and resources with the existing wild creatures? or would they so devastate the delicate ecosystem balance that most of them by necessity would have to be killed anyway?

and even if the change begins slowly? is there a place for once domesticated but no longer needed animals? or would they all by necessity have to cease to be?

these are the things I am wondering.

I hear the easy and slick rhetoric..and i understand the dream but…. has anyone ever really sat down and figured out what the attainment of this dream will actually and in reality mean?

I don’t want to torture domestic animals..but I don’t want them wild, loose and rummaging around my back yard or getting dragged down and eaten by a pack of starving, free, feral dogs or god forbid…cease to exist altogether either.

nature really isn’t any kinder than man..nature is just easier for us to understand.

maybe there are those who have the real and right answers to all of this..but I have my doubts. we may all be natural born killers in some way or another, especially if we do not understand the full ramifications of the actions we take.

such a deeply confusing issue..so why does it seem so very easy and simple on the surface?

14 Comments on "ok..this is going to be a weird one…"

  • erin says

    ha, tip of the iceberg i think. what about all the medicine we use, with animal byproducts? id like to see the end of animal testing, but the shit has to be tested. how many lab monkeys were killed while science figured out the ideal treatment for a kid with a disease like my sons? and re vegans…guess whats in the fertilizer to grow all those freakin plants? and guess whats in def fluid, a necessity to any diesel engine, including the truck that supplies the grocery store? same thing thats in cigarettes fyi…urea. now, there IS synthetic urea, but how do you know which is being sprayed on the crops you buy?

  • Rae says

    A little off topic but speaking of fleas, lice and parasites I have 8 boxes of teal green and plum colored Revolution . Would you like it, if so I need your mailing address 🙂

  • Maggie says

    Rae

    SAINTS Donations
    33860 Dlugosh Avenue
    Mission, BC V2V 6B2

  • Rae says

    Thank you 🙂

  • Sheila says

    I think most people who decide to become vegans do look into as many possible things as they can that they know about and find out about it. It is also why most vegans buy organic and watch what kind of medications they take. I had not heard about def fluid so will have to look into that and make a decision. I usually purchase synthetic products for my car (but i am pretty stupid when it comes to my car). because I figure it won’t have animal products in it. Not all vegans are mean spirited people who thing they are better than every one else, at least I don’t think I am. We are not all trying to catch you on hypocritical Behaviour so not fair to try to catch us on them either. The people who posted on Saint’s facebook,in my opinion, are more about themselves and pointing out how wonderful and better than the rest of the world are for the glorious decisions they make. Most of us vegans are not in it to make ourselves look good but are really trying to make ethical decisions with what is available to them and, yes, sometimes we fail because that is life.

  • Leila says

    oops that was me, Leila, posting under Sheila’s name by accident.

  • pam in Oz says

    “nature really isn’t any kinder than man” you are very right about that.
    we all do the best we can .

  • pam in Oz says

    “nature really isn’t any kinder than man” you are very right about that.
    we all do the best we can .

  • pam in Oz says

    “nature really isn’t any kinder than man” you are very right about that.
    we all do the best we can .

  • Shelley says

    Or, we could support abolishionism. Sterilize all domestic and companion animals and allow them to die out. Then live our lives with as little impact on the natural world as possible, with a complete separation of humans and other wild, sentient life. Sounds extreme, but it is as close to cruelty-free as we’re going to get. Unless you ascribe to the voluntary human extinction movement.

  • erin says

    yes leila your right, we all just try to do the best we can. i creeped that ladys fb page to see who she was, and i laughed as she called saints the hypocrite. it was a deliberate public attack on carol. i seem to recall someone giving her shit once for bringing up the la dogs one year, because there are enough local dogs needing help. cant make all the people happy all the time. thank fuck, we arent in it for the people!

  • Carol says

    sorry Leila, I know I shouldn’t be petty but..i am still a bit pissy on the whole vegan thing. it does really bug me when non-purists struggle with their own impurity and yet feel it is ok to preach purity to me. it is like watching Christians or Muslims spreading the word of god’s/allah’s love with guns and bombs while maiming or raping small children. the whole do as I say but not as I do…bugs me. why not just be honest and tell the truth? I think I am bigger and better and stronger and more important and I can do what I want to you.

    and there is no doubt that part of the reason I am still fussing over this..is my own feelings of personal responsibility and guilt.

    but part of me does wonder, in the long run..which road is the natural intended road?….are we as humans by nature meant to be omnivores? because if we are..then maybe I am not so wrong in thinking that if the majority of mankind is going to use animals to fulfill human needs..then we can work towards achieving a state of using them respectfully and compassionately.

    as humans, we are so arrogant to think we are not just another member of earth’s kingdom of animal species..we think we are something different..something above.
    but what if we are not?
    what if we have a natural role to fulfill that we have forgot?

    what if we were meant to be something like shepherds? using what we need to survive but with utmost care and respect while protecting the balance.

    sometimes I wonder, how many of our human problems arise simply from our obsession for reaching extremes?

    why can’t we be satisfied with a comfortable balanced existence like all other species?

    we are becoming a color blind species that refuses to see or accept any variation between black or white and I do believe that this one thing will be our own self made greatest threat against our own species survival.

    I do think maybe we have to stop thinking we are..or aspiring to be… god-like and concentrate on accepting a smaller, more insignificant role in the shared balance of all living things.

    I don’t know any of the answers but I have so many questions about our intended natural role in everything.
    nature does have a purpose for every living thing..so what is ours? I really want to know..why we are here? if we could find the answer to that we can stop screwing up and around and just do whatever our job is here.

  • Leila says

    It is a very deeply confusing issue. I am don’t necessarily think human animals should be herbivores. I think physically we are made to be omnivores. I just know been vegan is the right choice for me and me alone at this time in my life for a variety of reasons. I know that non human animals can be very opportunistic too. They compete for space, eat each other and form symbiotic relationships with each other. I get confused with people who think we are protecting/conducting good animal welfare by not eating them or any by-products. The part confused about is that in some sense it smacks of a patronizing attitude in that we humans are so much better than non human animals because we don’t eat or partake of any animal products. Are we saying we are better than non human animals because we can choose to make this decision. If they can be omnivores, herbivores or carnivores, why can’t humans make the same choices. It has to do with how we treat and respect them while we are making the decision to eat or not eat them. Do non human animals go through the same process of thinking and if not does that mean we are superior to them. I sometimes feel that there is a small percentage of vegans who approach it from a patronizing space and do they really respect non human animals are feel that they are the superior being that most protect the weaker being. Okay just blabbing but it is a complicated questions with many sides to it.

  • Vicky says

    I never used to eat a lot of meat until my hair started falling out because my ferritins were at a count of 4. I upped my meat intake and now eat red meat at least twice a week. Sometimes I feel guilty about eating pigs and cows, but I try to eat from local farms because I know where the meat comes from. I can eat meat quite readily if I know it had a good life before it became my evening meal.

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